Re: [DALnet-services] HelpServ Overhaul - RFC (request for comments)
Well, as helpers on help channels (#help, #dalnethelp, #irchelp, etc), we help users with this information all the time. A user joins and asks why they are banned from channel #*****. As helpers, we do a simple command to find the person who banned them. /mode #***** b #***** *!*@*.aol.com set by PapaSmurf!PapaSmurf@*****.hsd1.co.comcast.net (Fri Jan 01 09:20:40) #***** End of Channel Ban List We, as helpers, give them a pre-existing Bahamut command or tell them the nick of the channel operator who banned them. We usually state to message them politely and ask why they were banned. Most often it is a bot that does the banning, but at least we get to explain why they were banned (i.e. they match a pre-existing ban, ChanServ akick'd them, etc). Basically, with the ' /helpserv banned ' topic, I was just using commands already in existence with Bahamut (and has been since I started using DALnet... 1998). --- On Thu, 12/31/09, Irvine A. Eatmon - prez <prez@dal.net> wrote:
From: Irvine A. Eatmon - prez <prez@dal.net> Subject: Re: [DALnet-services] HelpServ Overhaul - RFC (request for comments) To: "PapaSmurf" <freedried@yahoo.com> Cc: dalnet-services@lists.dal.net Date: Thursday, December 31, 2009, 6:47 PM Having commands that allow users information to see WHO banned them from a channel, including user addresses, etc... is not something I believe DALnet should implement.
Yes, channel bans are not exactly top-secret information, as others in a channel can see who set the bans and execute a /WHOIS to view the users used IP Address/Hostname.
However, giving users direct access to this, can be bad. This gives them the information needed, via an easy tool that DALnet would be endorsing, to send messages to the Operator (ChanOp) in question, that may be slanderous and hateful. It may also open up for floods of that ChanOp in question.
We should have that information remain as-is, with nothing new being revealed or made more easily accessable.
[ Irvine A. Eatmon ] [ prez - prez@dal.net ] [ rapport.ix.us.dal.net ] [ Global Operator - Services Administrator ] [ Web Team Member ]
Obviously the information in HelpServ is obsolete. Just a few commands I find even remotely useful for helping new users to DALnet...
1. /helpserv rules 2. /helpserv basics 3. /helpserv etiquette
I made a post to the helpers@ mailing list with Bahamut IRCd commands for non-oper users. Maybe we could revamp /helpserv basics with taht information. I went to #bahamut weeks ago, and a channel op there said he didn't know of an existing Bahamut IRCd command list to reference (hence the reason I posted it).
Maybe we can revamp HelpServ to use as a reference tool (with relevant topics) for help channel staff to reference newbies to.
Some topic examples...
/helpserv welcome - Welcome msg from DALnet /helpserv listhelp - list of help channels /helpserv register - nick/chan registration benefits /helpserv vhosts - DALnet doesn't have a HostServ, but BNC... /helpserv threats - if threatened, what to do (contacts?) /helpserv services - Differentiate DALnet from other networks
Note: With the services topic, such things as no halfops, botserv, X, etc.
/helpserv banned - basic information to check who banned & how to msg...
Note: with the banned topic, maybe stuff like... /mode #channel b to see who banned them, and /whois to see what their addy is, etc.
I'd like to see some posts to this thread with other examples. Maybe we can all talk the services coders into revamping the obsolete service. Still, I find it useful, and it should not be phased out. I would be more than happy to donate my time in writing samples to submit to this mailing list for RFCs. Together, we can get working topics compiled and update HelpServ.
PapaSmurf
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[ Irvine A. Eatmon ] [ prez - prez@dal.net ] [ rapport.ix.us.dal.net ] [ Global Operator - Services Administrator ] [ Web Team Member ]
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:29 AM, PapaSmurf <freedried@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, as helpers on help channels (#help, #dalnethelp, #irchelp, etc), we help users with this information all the time. A user joins and asks why they are banned from channel #*****. As helpers, we do a simple command to find the person who banned them. /mode #***** b
Hm.. here's a really dumb question. Why don't we have a service that can answer that question, so the novice can see why they were banned, without having to learn all the commands involved? /msg HelpServ whybanned #example -HelpServ- You were banned from #example, by OpNickname -HelpServ- If you type /mode #example :b -HelpServ- You will see: -HelpServ- -- A ban for the pattern: *!*@*.example.com -HelpServ- was added by OpNick on Fri Jan 1 2010, 3:33 -HelpServ- -HelpServ- The above ban effects you. -HelpServ- If you type /USERHOST yournick -HelpServ- You will see your host address of the form nick!user@host is: -HelpServ- yournick!yourusername@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- If you wish to be unbanned, you may want to contact -HelpServ- OpNickname and politely request to be allowed to rejoin the channel /msg HelpServ howcanIban badguy from #example -HelpServ- Badguy currently has a hostmask of: -HelpServ- yournick!yourusername@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- To ban badguy from #example, it is suggested to choose one of the following: -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's current username from any host: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!yourusername@* -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's nickname from any host: -HelpServ- /mode #example b badguy!*@* -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's username, from example.com: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!yourusername@*.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban based on from badguy's current host address: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!*@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A domain-wide ban of badguy's site: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!*@*.example.com --- -J
In my opinion, the syntax for those commands is going to be just as difficult for most of the newbies to learn as /mode #example +b or /whois badguy. Learning how to create an effective targeted ban is something that channel operators should take the time to learn, if they want to be effective operators. Specifically, though, neither helpers in a channel nor any service can tell someone WHY they were banned. A favorite kick message of mine is "Nope." Whatever behavior they were doing at the time is why they got banned. As helpers, we can point them to go ask the op that banned them why they were banned. A Service doing this same thing, however, can be taken by users to understand that if they ask to be unbanned, they will be. This is not the case. If we're going to have coders doing things to services, I'd rather they take the time to fix some of the existing functionality, like Enforce. If the current behavior is how they want services to behave by default, then the current implementation isn't that great. It's more of a hack that puts the functionality in. It'd be better to take the time to properly hardcode the behavior in, instead of leaving the option there, and finding various ways to enforce it on. We still get questions about how to turn it off, because it still looks like an option. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:56 PM, James Hess <mysidia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:29 AM, PapaSmurf <freedried@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, as helpers on help channels (#help, #dalnethelp, #irchelp, etc), we help users with this information all the time. A user joins and asks why they are banned from channel #*****. As helpers, we do a simple command to find the person who banned them. /mode #***** b
Hm.. here's a really dumb question. Why don't we have a service that can answer that question, so the novice can see why they were banned, without having to learn all the commands involved?
/msg HelpServ whybanned #example -HelpServ- You were banned from #example, by OpNickname -HelpServ- If you type /mode #example :b -HelpServ- You will see: -HelpServ- -- A ban for the pattern: *!*@*.example.com -HelpServ- was added by OpNick on Fri Jan 1 2010, 3:33 -HelpServ- -HelpServ- The above ban effects you. -HelpServ- If you type /USERHOST yournick -HelpServ- You will see your host address of the form nick!user@hostis: -HelpServ- yournick!yourusername@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- If you wish to be unbanned, you may want to contact -HelpServ- OpNickname and politely request to be allowed to rejoin the channel
/msg HelpServ howcanIban badguy from #example -HelpServ- Badguy currently has a hostmask of: -HelpServ- yournick!yourusername@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- To ban badguy from #example, it is suggested to choose one of the following: -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's current username from any host: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!yourusername@* -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's nickname from any host: -HelpServ- /mode #example b badguy!*@* -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban of badguy's username, from example.com: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!yourusername@*.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A ban based on from badguy's current host address: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!*@my.example.com -HelpServ- -HelpServ- A domain-wide ban of badguy's site: -HelpServ- /mode #example b *!*@*.example.com
--- -J _______________________________________________ DALnet-services mailing list DALnet-services@lists.dal.net https://lists.dal.net/mailman/listinfo/dalnet-services
participants (3)
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James Hess -
PapaSmurf -
Vin King